Tag: short term rental

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Time For Legal Advice From A Local Florida Attorney – Will See What Guidance They Provide

It is finally time for legal advice from a local Florida attorney. Late last week, I had the opportunity to have a friend’s wife quickly review the information and provide her interpretation. It is now time to get a local attorney who is very familiar with the Florida law to provide their interpretation and guidance.

Before hearing what the attorney had to say, if you haven’t had a chance to get caught up yet on everything going on, check the links below for the first 6 parts to the series!

Getting On The Phone With The Attorney

I had never spoken to an attorney before to talk through potential guidance on an Executive Order. Prior to speaking with the attorney, I had put together some information for my agent to pass along. I essentially put together a short summary of

  • What had happened to this point?
  • All communication that had been sent from the HOA/Board to homeowners
  • And a copy of Executive Order 87 that walks through the restrictions placed on short term rental owners

The attorney asked me for the case I was trying to argue for which is where I referenced Section A (i) that I had referenced previously in the Executive Order. For reference, below is a snip of the Executive Order and section I was referencing.

Executive Order

How I Interpreted Section A(i)

I recently polled my followers on Instagram to see what their thoughts were for how they would interpret the Executive Order. This was more for fun than anything else. I am by no means a lawyer and I know that probably 99.9% of people who have been reading this are not lawyers, but I thought I would go ahead and poll anyways.

Poll of instagram viewers

Here were the results from the poll. 90% of people agreed that 30+ day rentals are allowed based off the Executive Order and 10% disagreed. This at least had me not feeling crazy about how I interpreted the Executive Order.

Here is how I interpreted the Executive Order. I interpreted Section A (i) as you are allowed to rent out your place for over 30+ days, but short term rentals are banned for the time being. This would mean any new bookings I received for 30+ days would be allowed to stay in the resort. Again, this was my interpretation of the Executive Order.

Time For The Lawyers Interpretation

Before explaining the Lawyers Interpretation of the law, I would like to say one thing. The lawyer read and re-read the Executive Order. Prior to going into her interpretation of the law she told me this. She said this was one of the worst written Executive Orders that she had ever seen the governor write and sign into law. More than likely, that was due to how quick they were trying to act to get something signed and put into law.

Here is why she thought it was horrible. First, she said the Executive Order looks to contradict itself in a few different areas. There is a lot of technical verbiage in the Executive Order, but there is a lot you must understand about terms like “transient lodging establishment” or “non-transient lodging establishment.” She had to look up the definition of each of them to which she determined that my place would be considered a transient public lodging establishment.

The biggest point of confusion she said is based off how the entire section reads. She stated there is an AND clause to begin point A which then constitutes the OR clauses to act as an AND clause in a sense.

I was so confused, I had to ask her to break it down for me in laymen terms. She talked me through the fact that the AND clause prior to the OR clauses makes it such that all the OR clauses have to be true in order for the exception to be okay based off the Executive Order.

Goodness gracious, even trying to explain it as I type this out right now I am confusing myself as to how to interpret it properly. I believe the correct interpretation is no new guests are allowed to check in because my place is a transient public lodging establishment, it has been rented out prior this year for less than 30 days, it is advertised to the public on Airbnb, and it is regulated by the Department of Business and Professional Regulation as a vacation rental pursuant to section 509.241. I believe since all of those had been true then I could not have anyone check in for the duration of the executive order.

Well S**T!! That Wasn’t The Answer I Expected

She again stated it was one of the worst Executive Orders she had seen written in a long time. She said it is extremely confusing and stated there is a lot more research they would have to do to confirm there are no holes in her initial interpretation, but it would cost $385 per hour to research further. The conversation ended up lasting 20 minutes and at the end of the conversation I asked for her advice to understand whether it was worth them doing the research.

The lawyer told me she would be more than happy to do further research to confirm her initial thoughts, but said she felt 80% confident my case wouldn’t hold up in court. Although hard to say, she said she agreed with the interpretation the HOA attorney had on the law.

To confuse things even more about how the Executive Order reads, I asked her to look at Section B of the Executive Order. I hadn’t read down to Section B of the Executive Order yet. Mainly because I thought Section A gave me a valid case for having someone rent.

Here is what Section B states in the Executive Order:

Section B

The community this rental is in considers themselves a resort. So if that is the case, then all resorts are excluded from the executive order. And if resorts are excluded from the Executive Order, would this apply to our resort at all?

In my communication to the HOA and Board, I have only stated reference to Section A(i).

I asked for the lawyer to give me her interpretation of Section B and that is when she said she would be more than happy to do further research, but it would need to be on the clock to do a full interpretation of the case. At that point, I asked her what the best path forward was.

She quickly scrolled down to the bottom of the Executive Order to see when it expired. The Executive Order is set to expire later this week. With that in mind, she told me to wait it out to see if the Executive Order is extended on the expiration date. If the Executive Order is extended on that date, then email her and we could talk through more details on what a legal pivot would be for investors in the community based off the Bylaws of the HOA, Executive Order, and any other relevant information.

Overall Outcome Of Speaking With The Lawyer

Okay, so that didn’t go as I thought it would go. I thought I could read, but I clearly can’t interpret law based off my interpretation of this Executive Order. There has to be a way to pivot this in ways that wouldn’t consider this rental as a short term rental, I just need to figure out how to pivot properly based off the law. There is much more research I need to do and some clarity I need to get with reviewing the Bylaws of the HOA association on long term rentals.

This isn’t where things stop though. The story continues getting even juicier after the response back I sent to the HOA and Board this morning based off their response email yesterday’s article.

Just wait till you see this craziness. Got me fired up! More to come in the next couple of days.

Stay posted by subscribing to the blog and following me on Instagram!

Don’t worry, this is not where this story ends. I may have lost this battle, but we have not lost the war!

I have much more fun that has happened as of today. More posts coming over the next four days!

To check out the next part of this series, click the link below!

Part VIII: Ready To Pull My Hair Out On This HOA Issue! – But Time For A Political Response

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The HOA President Responded With The Board Decision – Prime The Popcorn

The HOA President responded with the board decision. It is now time for some fun to begin.

Before going into the response from the HOA President with the boards final decision, there is too much going on in this crazy story to not start from the beginning! Below are the first five parts to this wild story. Make sure to read to get caught up prior to reading this post!

Time For the HOA Response

At this point, I am getting butterflies in my stomach each time a new email comes across. I have never gone through anything like this and the reality is I don’t want to have to seek legal action against the HOA. The last thing I want to do is cause any problems or issues. My interpretation of the executive order is that I can rent my home out for more than 30 days. Again, I could be reading the document entirely wrong. I am not a lawyer and I don’t plan to become one anytime soon.

So here we go. I received a response from the GM of the Resort. Butterflies are racing in my stomach. Hands started to get a little sweaty. I had no idea what to expect as a response. This could be the email response that leads me to go down the path of filing a lawsuit to seek damages of rental income for the resort HOA not abiding by what I believe to be the law.

GM First Response

At this point, I have to believe that the GM realized from reading my email that a lawyer helped me put it together.

Time To Take A Deep Breath

It was now time to sit down and relax a little bit. There was nothing I could do to control what the board comes back with in an email response.

It was now a waiting game.

Woosah

 

8 Hours Later…A Response From The Board

8 hours later, I received a response. However, this response was from a different email I had not seen before. It was an email directly from the HOA on an email address I had never seen before. Again, the butterflies are going in my stomach.

Here was the response

Board Response

There you go. Dagger. According to this email, the HOA board reached out to their attorney and confirmed that I am reading the state executive order wrong.

Why do documents of law have to be so complex. I went back to read the state executive order again and at this point I need to stop making my own opinion on what the executive order says and I need to get a local attorney to review.

At the end of the day, as I have said before, I want to follow the law. And I have interpreted the law as I can rent my place for over 30+ days.

Next Steps!?

Now that I have officially received a response from the HOA, it is time to speak to a local attorney to ask for guidance on the executive order. I simply want someone to be able to tell me what I can and cannot do based off this law.

There is additional research I still need to do. One thing I do want to research is what is considered a long term rental in Florida and see if I can abide by that as the executive order (I believe) makes it clear that long term rentals are fine.

Check  back tomorrow to see how the conversation goes with the lawyer! This has been a wild journey so far. I am continuing to learn new things every day this continues.

I am looking forward to how this makes me stronger as an investor moving forward.

Again, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE SUPPORT AND MESSAGES! I have been trying to document this journey so hopefully others can learn or at least gain insights into some of the real challenges that come with real estate investing. Probably learning a few things about not wanting to buy in neighborhoods with HOA’s as well haha.

I will post in the coming week on my overall viewpoints on HOA’s. I am sure you have developed your own opinions of them 🙂

Want to continue reading? Next article in this series posted below!

Part VII: Time For Legal Advice From A Local Florida Attorney – Will See What Guidance They Provide

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Lawyered The S**t Out Of The Final Email To The HOA & Board

I lawyered the s**t out of the final email to the HOA & Board. That is right. The last thing my friends lawyer told me was to send one last email to the HOA & Board. She high level outlined the different things to put in the email and then asked me to send it over to her for final approval. Let me just begin by telling you this. The final email was 100000000000 times better than the original email I put together. This is one of the benefits of knowing someone who has a wife as a lawyer! You can get some free legal council.

Before you go into reading the email I sent to the HOA & Board, make sure you are up to speed on everything that has transpired to this point! Here are the links to each of the first four articles I have written about this crazy situation I am that has led me to a potential lawsuit:

Time For The Email!

This is the exact email I sent over to the HOA. Again, my first draft of the email sounded much less lawyery than this final draft! I couldn’t have done it without the help of my friends wife!

Here we go…get the popcorn ready..enjoy 🙂

April 5, 2020

Good afternoon Conrad and Board,

I wanted to take a few minutes to follow-up per my latest emails beginning April 1st till April 3rd and events that happened this morning at Terra Verde where one of my guests (staying for 31 nights) was not allowed in.

I am emailing again to request  the HOA to adhere the exception granted by the Office of the Governor in Executive Order # 20-87, dated March 27, 2020, permitting rentals for 30 days or more.   To date, I have had to cancel three separate bookings to rent my  property, at *my address*, for 31+ days as a result of the HOA refusing to adhere to the Governor’s Executive Order # 20-87. I have included the link to the Executive Order below, which clearly states that any rental of 30 days or more are not prohibited under this order.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-87.pdf

The Executive Order provides for  three different exceptions for short term rentals. I have taken a snip of these exceptions and pasted it below.

Executive Order

Pursuant to Section A (i), rental of any house, condominium, cooperative or dwelling unit… “Which is rented for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less are prohibited.

The three rental reservations that the HOA have refused to allow my guests entrance to the property, where all rentals of 30 days or more, which is clearly permitted pursuant to the referenced Executive Order, the current law regarding the rentals of properties in Florida. Please advise whether the HOA and Board is abiding by Section A (i) noted above as it reads. If not, please advise as to what law permits the HOA to disregard the Governor’s Executive Order permitting rentals of 30 days or more.

I would also like to briefly touch on the email sent to homeowners by the HOA Board on 3/30 shown below

Terra Verde HOA Email

The above calls out specific concerns to anyone from out of state areas of high infection, must self-quarantine for 14 days after arrival. This leads me to believe the main reason for not allowing new guests is the safety of not allowing people from highly infectious areas to stay in the resort.

I would like to outline the very specific scenario from this morning. I had a guest who was supposed to arrive today (4/5/2020). This guest was scheduled to stay at my home for 31 nights, checking in on 4/5/2020 and checking out on 5/7/2020. These guests’ reservation was for $2,100. A little background on these guests. The guests were a father, wife, and 12-year-old son. They have been in Orlando for over 3 months for the winter, thus not coming from out of state.  During their time in Orlando, they have been staying at Airbnb’s long term rentals. They are now displaced as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, which prevents them from going back home to the northeastern side of the country.

These guests arrived at the gate today, April 5, 2020  around 10:28 am local time. Upon checking in, they were notified that they would not be allowed into the property and were turned away. The guests called me, very frustrated, which is when I went out to speak with the on duty manager. The on duty manager informed me this decision is final and there is no exception as he is doing his job as directed by Conrad and the board (I really like the on duty manager, good guy).

Below are questions I have for the HOA:

  • Are there new HOA Bylaws or Declaration documents that have been signed into order that I am not aware of stating the HOA has the authority to perform the actions that have been performed to not abide by the Executive Order put in place by the Governor on March 2, 2020? If there are, could I please receive a copy of the new Bylaws and/or Declaration documents?
  • Please advise whether the HOA and Board is abiding by Section A (i) noted above in the executive order as it reads.

I will be moving forward with seeking damages as a result of lost income based off the actions from this morning which prohibited my guests, rental for over 30 days, to enter the premise. I have also had to remove my listing for all rental sites causing even more damage and loss.

My intent is not to circumvent the laws and restrictions set in place for our public safety.  In fact, I respect and appreciate all of these measures being implemented for our safety.  I am simply trying to adhere to the law and help people who are currently in the state of Florida, but displaced due to the pandemic until they are able to make more permanent arrangements.  Again, all of my guests’ reservations were for the permitted period of 30 days or more.

Therefore, I request that the HOA and Board reconsider its decision as the requested action is clearly permitted under that Governor’s Executive Order and the County “Stay at Home Act.”

Thanks for your time, I look forward to hearing from you soon regarding this very important and time sensitive matter.

Sincerely,

TheYoungRetireeBy33

Property Owner

Talk About A Email Having Some Lawyered Up Amaizingness In It

I was amazed after she sent back an edited version of the first draft I sent over to her. I had to add a few dates and clarifications and it was ready to send over to the HOA and Board.

It is now time to wait for the response from Conrad and the board. And boy do I have my popcorn out and ready for the response.

I am a firm believer that the HOA president and board think I am just blowing smoke when I say I am going to move forward with seeking damages as a result of lost income based off the actions from this morning which prohibited my guests, rental for over 30 days, to enter the premise.

It all started with being belittled by the President of the board and other homeowners who live in the resort on the Facebook page after my post. If you thought the last five posts have been juicy, I can’t wait to continue documenting this journey.

If you haven’t already, checkout my Instagram page and follow the blog! Thanks for all the support and messages from everyone over the last two weeks going through all this. It has been amazing to see all the people reading along and getting all the feedback!

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE SUPPORT!

This story doesn’t end here! Checkout the next post at the link below!

To read Part V of this crazy story, click the link below!

The HOA President Responded With The Board Decision – Prime The Popcorn